Serial Podcast: Producer Dana Chivvis Is No Mr. Spock

Jenn Interview -- "Last NIght"


We are still so sure we know what other people think, or what their true character is. We are convinced that certain people have all the bad qualities that we do not know in ourselves, or that they practice all those vices which could, of course, never be our own….  If you imagine someone who is brave enough to withdraw all these projections, then you get someone who is conscious of a considerable shadow….  He has become a serious problem to himself, as he is now unable to say that they do this or that, they are wrong, and they must be fought against.
→ C. G. Jung, “Psychology and Religion” in Collected Works, vol. 11

Serial Podcast
producer, Dana Chivvis, is no Mr. Spock. As Sarah Koenig refers to her in episode 12, What We Know. Or else, she would have figured out what the “logical” cell data is proof of and the statistical likelihood that Jay killed Hae. (And here.)

Anyone who thinks Adnan guilty must rely on Jay’s telling the truth. Because there is nothing else to implicate Adnan without Jay’s testimony. Not even the cellphone records during critical events lead to Adnan’s guilt without Jay’s elaborations. And to a lesser extent, Jenn’s. So that other than Jay’s testimony, Adnan’s guilt can be assumed based only on conjecture and judgments about Adnan’s character, emotional state, motive and what one thinks Adnan should have done (or be saying or how he should be saying it) in a situation to which they themselves have never been a party…including being in the prison system for 15 years.

While for middling Doubters and Acquitters, they allow Jay may be lying…but not totally, not when it counts. Because otherwise, Adnan’s complete exoneration would have to rest atop too many uncomfortable, for them, absences. Absence of physical-forensic evidence implicating someone else — because the police never test it against anyone else, specifically Jay. Absence of a counter story to Jay’s — because Adnan wasn’t there. Along with an absence of memory as to what Adnan was doing the day of Hae’s murder — because he was drugged. Absence of reason for how Adnan could have let Jay use his car and cellphone, again, after Jay drops him off home for Mosque — rohypnol. Remember Kathy’s? Adnan was fine approx. 22 minutes earlier when he called Krista (5:38) from McDonald’s, where he must have drank something liquid. And Jay was at his connection Patrick’s just over an hour earlier (4:12 Forest Park ping). If you think this is too crazy, click here. And the big one: an  absence, in their minds, of Jay’s having a satisfying motive for killing Hae; nor of how he would have gained access to her after school on his own; or how he could have committed the crime without help — disregarding any other plausible explanation for the excess amount of calls to and from Jenn. Even though there is evidentiary proof that Jay did have a motive and did gain access to her…because Hae is dead, her body found. And it is Jay who — for a fact — has the car and cellphone to accomplish this, with calls to his friends pinging all the right towers at all the right times. (“Serial: A Comparison of Adnan’s Cell Phone Records…“) Besides what Jay actually admits to, which is a lot…but also seemingly minimized in the absence of his having a satisfying motive. Additionally, due to these absences, Adnan becomes for some a blank slate onto which they can freely project their own personal beliefs, in general, about guilt.

As to Adnan’s motive, there was not a single warning sign that he had anything but love and respect for Hae, as he says (but whose Word is treated in inverse proportion to the deference accorded Jay’s). How many killers organize a Memorial Service for their victim, planting a tree in her honor? Or stares at his victim’s photograph openly in psychology class? Or cuts out a look-alike picture of the victim to send a friend from jail, where he is awaiting trial for her murder? Though we have to allow this is possible, but for someone who’d have to be very sick. So it’s about as possible as Jay being only the accomplice. That is, for Jay to be only the accomplice…Adnan would have to be very sick. Not just temporarily seized with a jealous, murderous rage…but serial-killer sick in which trophies are collected and prized. (Even if you’re fond of the amnesia theory, Adnan’s actions here diametrically oppose his supposed motive for killing Hae. Why would he be memorializing “that bitch” whom he hated enough to pre-meditatedly murder?)

All this is to say that the “reasons” for Adnan’s possible guilt, given by the Doubters and Acquitters, are referred to by Chivvis, to paraphrase, as “Sucky Coincidences.” And would seem to add up to an unlikely cluster-fuck that makes Adnan look bad.

But Spock would not see the points she makes as coincidences at all, and would be able to follow them to the rational conclusion that Adnan is not guilty. And Jay is. Because there is one rational mind, blogger-lawyer Susan Simpson, who has arrived at just this conclusion — though maybe because she is a Spock-like lawyer, she does not state it outright. She just strongly infers it. Simpson’s written a handful of posts that lead directly away from Adnan and to Jay being the murderer.

Dana Chivvis’ Sucky Coincidences and bits of Susan Simpson’s cool, precise, Spock-like rebuttals are below.

Mr. Spock knows that all beliefs are lies, and therefore does not alloy them with facts. And there are no facts that lead to a logical conclusion of Adnan’s guilt. The cellphone is in Leakin Park — that is the fact. But another tangential fact, or piece of exculpatory evidence, is that those two calls, only seven minutes apart, are from Jenn calling to Jay, as she states to police. Which places only Jay in Leakin Park with any certainty. And importantly but all too easily dismissed, there is testimony attesting to the fact that Adnan was at the Mosque shortly after these Leakin Park calls are received (14 minutes after). And the cell data only affirms this testimony. Of course, Jenn at first says Adnan answered. Then perhaps realizing how implausible it is that she’d actually recognize a person’s voice whom she barely knows, if she knows at all except for seeing him around school, Jenn backs down and says “some man” answered. Both are lies orchestrated by Jay the night before her police interview.

Transcript from Jenn’s lawyered-up 2/27/1999 police interview for which Jay had obviously prepped her the night before:

Jenn Interview -- "Last NIght"

Page 14 of Jenn’s police transcript. Also note that Jay “wanted” to use Adnan’s car. It was not Adnan’s idea but Jay’s that he borrow it.

Here Jay lets slip the truth that Adnan did not give him the cellphone but just left if in the car.

Here Jay lets slip the truth in court that Adnan did not give him the cellphone but just left it in the car. Prosecutor Urick must have been apoplectic.

And say for a fact Adnan asked Hae for a ride after school that day. Doesn’t anyone who thinks this implicates Adnan remember? What Krista said Adnan’s response was when Hae comes back later and says she cannot give him a ride after all because something came up? Adnan says to the effect, “Okay, I’ll ask someone else.” What?…so he can murder them instead? As if that’s the only reason to ask for a ride. The only reason asking for a ride has ominous import is because “Jay said….” Jay who spent hours and hours with police workshopping a narrative that could frame Adnan. The only two things this fact makes very evident is that Jay definitely has Adnan’s car. And that Adnan is stranded at school until Track begins. “Nothing” includes not killing Hae. Because she’s driving away toward the “something” that came up and her death…without Adnan in the passenger seat. (Lest Asia’s very clear eye-witness affidavit also be dismissed for interfering with one’s belief that Jay didn’t do it, because that is the real issue). So whether or not Adnan asked Hae for a ride after school that day is really a moot point. And in fact, serves to bring forward Krista and Asia, whose statements remove Adnan from the time-frame and off-premise location (Best Buy?) in which Hae was murdered. However as concerns Jay, who did have the time and mobility of Adnan’s car…much more on this below, because it does get interesting.

The extreme irony is that if Hae had given Adnan a ride that day…she’d still be alive.

Serial Podcast has made it easy to see just how Jesus himself came to be crucified: too nice, too charming, refuses to place blame, has no counter story or at all, maintains his innocence, stands up for the little (chubby, nerdy) guy, has peace-making qualities (such as ascribed to Adnan), etc., etc. Jesus must have been the “superficially charming” sociopath of his day. When Jesus says on the Cross, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do,” he means people don’t even realize that they are projecting their own shadow shit on to others and the outside world. The negative stuff they don’t want to take responsibility for. According to Jung: The shadow — in being instinctive and irrational — is prone to psychological projection in which a perceived personal inferiority is recognized as a perceived moral deficiency in someone else.

Meanwhile, there are several key facts that lead to concluding Jay is the murderer, like it or not. Chief among them is the fact that Jay knew where Hae’s car was ditched. Also seemingly, Jay knew where her body was buried per one police report/visit to site. And Jay performed the unlawful act of destroying evidence in a capital murder case — his clothing, boots, and fingerprints. Then there’s the classic: Jay obtained the shovel used to bury Hae from his own house…at around 4:27 p.m., when Adnan is still at Track. (Incoming 4:27 and 4:58 calls ping cell tower nearest Jenn and Jay’s house, not the same tower as Woodlawn/Best Buy/Mosque.)

If this really were a game of Clue — devoid of human emotions per Spock — no one whomsoever would have any trouble seeing that Jay killed Hae. Instead we have: “No, Prof. Plum couldn’t have killed Mr. Boddy in the Library with the (red) Gloves because he said Col. Mustard did it.” “Oh, okay. That makes sense. Col. Mustard must be a manipulative psychopath, or have temporary amnesia (for 15 years and counting).”

It is amazing how far Jay takes this charade of obliging accomplice and still manages to fool people, or to at least plant doubts about Adnan’s innocence. But really, they are fooling themselves. Perhaps as self-protection from the thought that a really nice, charming guy who is innocent can be convicted to life in prison based solely on the single testimony of an admitted liar who had much to gain from diverting police attention away from himself as the killer. And without a shred of physical-forensic evidence. This would mean the vaunted U.S. justice system does not always work the way people like to think. Indeed, may be corrupt in some places, like Baltimore. See this excellent explanation of how the BPD and the D.A. — particularly Det. Wm. Ritz  — played fast and loose in those days, including funny business with Jay’s “sweet plea deal.” (The judge, Wanda K. Heard, really is a piece of work, and that’s the kindest way to put it — because she was supposed to be the one with no personal biases.) And look for Det. Wm. Ritz’ name here in fine print, citing only one example for which he was dismissed, or forced to resign, from the BPD. And so the same thing could happen to them if they were innocent. So rather than contemplate this frightening thought, it is more soothing to “defend” themselves by thinking Adnan guilty. That way, the same thing never could happen to them. And therefore, Adnan is getting what he deserves. Sometimes called psychological distancing.

West-End Hit Men

I would be willing to bet that if police did not so cravenly capitulate to Jay’s falsely accusing Adnan of Hae’s murder…. If detectives had called bullshit on Jay’s juggernaut of lies and inconsistencies…. Jay may have confessed very fast (although he’s got a very strong self-preservation ethos). He was already paranoid enough to think Adnan ordered a hit on him for killing his ex-girlfriend, using his own car and cellphone. So freaking scared that Jay calls police to come and pick him up at the porn video store where he was working rather than go outside to face an empty van in the parking lot across the street. And he’s already planting the seeds of his accomplice story in the minds of virtual strangers, like co-worker Josh. Who says how he found this weird. This shows how much Jay has to gain by painting himself as only the accomplice, early and often, or else he wouldn’t be telling people at all if this were his true role. (Serial Podcast episode 12, “What We Know,” transcript.)

Jay is the narrator in Edgar Allen Poe’s “The Tell-Tale Heart.” He hears the tick tick tick of Hae’s heart. Only in his case, it is the vision of Hae’s blue lips and pretzel form he stuffed into the trunk of her own car. Jay thinks everyone knows what he knows…that he killed Hae. At approximately 3:30 on the afternoon of January 13, 1999. That’s why he’s paranoid enough to think there are West-End Hit Men after him of Middle Eastern origin. This paranoia is also why Jay insists to police over and over that he was with Jenn until 3:40, despite cell data to the contrary. And also why he tells police Jenn picked him up at his house around 8:00 p.m., where Adnan dropped him off. When Jenn is clear she picked Jay up at a Mall at that time (adding the extra flourish that Adnan was with him). Whether that was actually Westview Mall, the 8:04 and 8:05 calls to Jenn’s Pager ping an Edmondson Avenue cell tower, very near to where Jay dumped Hae’s car on a side street.


The “rage” Jay says he is feeling when Sarah Koenig and Julie Snyder drop in on him for a mere 20 minutes is consistent with his being reminded of and confronted with his act of murder. And the lies he told which put an innocent man in prison for life. Because Jay took two lives that day: Hae’s and subsequently Adnan’s. While Jennifer Pusateri can take credit for only one: Adnan’s.

But this was and is easy for Jay to do, without remorse, because he is the biggest Projectionist of all. Projecting what he did — strangle Hae, bury her body, dispose of her car — onto Adnan. (You don’t hear Adnan projecting onto Jay, quite the contrary.) Because Jay doesn’t see himself as the kind of guy who would kill someone. This belief is so powerful — and so split-off and compartmentalized — that Jay probably believes his own lies. And that power is then “respected” by anyone who thinks, even slightly, that Adnan is guilty. When Jay says in his recent interview for The Intercept that he just wants justice and closure for Hae’s mother…the “good” Jay probably believes it. But if anyone is a psychopath — suffers from a split personality — or has selective amnesia, it’s Prof. Plum.

Sucky Coincidences and Spock-Like Responses

Chivvis Assertion: “So, that’s pretty crappy luck that you loaned this guy, who ends up pointing the finger at you for the murder. That you loaned him your car and cell phone the day your ex-girlfriend goes missing.”

Spock-like Response: It is no coincidence that the ex-girlfriend goes missing when “this guy” is in possession of the car and cellphone. The car and cellphone are what make it possible for Jay to commit the murder. Because that day, he had the mobility to agree to meeting with Hae somewhere private. And the ability to call Jenn and Patrick for help getting rides in disposing of Hae’s car, twice. As for pointing the finger at Adnan, Jay had no alternative after the cellphone records made their advent. Adnan is the “logical” choice as it’s his cellphone that led to Jay in the first place. Though fingering Adnan was not the original plan. The 3:40 alibi Jay had worked out with Jenn was supposed to take care of Jay’s un-involvement. Which is why he insists on the 3:40 alibi time in all four of his police interviews.

Chivvis Assertion: “The next thing is that it seems pretty clear to me that Adnan asked Hae for a ride after school, because we’ve got at least two of their friends saying they overheard him ask for a ride from Hae.”

Spock-like Response: Invariably overlooked in this assertion is that one of those friends, Krista, testifies in court that Hae returns to Adnan later in the day to tell him that she cannot give him a ride after school because something came up. The logical thing to do is find out what that something is. Because Hae is dead within 45 minutes after leaving the premises. So there must be a connection. Also, it is far more statistically likely to ask someone for a ride after school to get something to eat before running Track than it is to implement her murder. When you’re stranded without a car and have an hour- and-a-half to idle away before Track begins. (Though there is no published statistical data on this phenomenon.)

As a post script, it may have been during that casual conversation when Adnan asked Hae for a ride that he happened to mention how he’d lent Jay his car…sparking in Hae the idea that this was her opportunity to confront Jay about cheating on Stephanie, or whatever. Because she realizes Jay has a car so can meet her somewhere. And there is that phone call that Jay was waiting for at Jenn’s that came in on her house telephone (it’s not Adnan who’d call the cellphone)…after which Jay immediately leaves. Of course Jenn says, several times, this call came in between 3:30 and 4:00, in keeping with their alibi time — but Jay is calling to Jenn’s house at 3:21, so…. She also says the call came in on the house or cell phone, but there are no calls at all on the cellphone between 12:43 and 2:36. So it’s the house phone. She tells police Jay left between 2:30 and 4:15, directly following this call to the house. But as there is an incoming cellphone call at 2:36 that pings the Woodlawn cell tower…2:30 is the accurate time. And Hae is strangled not long thereafter.

Hae’s “something” that came up after school and Jay’s receiving a telephone call at Jenn’s house — leaving the house immediately afterwards at around 2:30 — is no coincidence.

Jenn Actual 2-30 CallPage 8 of Jenn’s police transcript.

Susan Simpson also discusses the reliability of this overheard, second-hand information supplied by these two friends, Becky and Krista, in her blog post Serial: An Examination of the Prosecution’s Evidence Against Adnan Syed.

Chivvis Assertion: “In Jay’s first interview with the detectives, he says to them: ‘Adnan’s plan was to get in Hae’s car by telling her that his car was broken down and asking her for a ride’.”

Spock-like Response: See lawyer Susan Simpson’s…Why Jay’s Testimony is Not Credible Evidence of Adnan’s Guilt.

Chivvis Assertion: “Then the next piece of bad luck is the Nisha call. I mean, even if the Nisha call could potentially be a butt dial, in the realm of possibility, maybe it was a butt dial, but what are the chances?”

Spock-like Response: The chances are around 5%, as Susan Simpson discovered. Not an insignificant percentage. And given the model Nokia phone Adnan carried, it was ridiculously easy to make a butt dial by pressing only one pre-programmed number on the keypad. For more explanation, see Susan Simpsons blog post, Serial: Why the Nisha Call Shows Hae was Murdered at 3:32.

Chivvis Assertion: “Then the last thing that I think really sucks for him if he’s innocent is that Jay’s story and the cell phone records match up from about six o’clock to about eight o’clock which is when Jay is saying you are burying the body, and that’s the time of the day you just have no memory of where you were. You have your dad saying you were at the Mosque, and maybe Bilal your youth leader….”

Spock-like Response: Adnan makes a call at 6:59 to Yaser that pings the cell tower nearest his house/the Mosque, where there are witnesses testifying to the fact that he was with them from 7:30 onward. (How these two testimonies could be viewed any less credibly than Jay’s…shows how deceptive the human mind can be, to itself). But Adnan has always said that he needed to walk food over to his father at the Mosque for the end of Ramadan ritual fast. Which means he would have had to stop at home for awhile first. So the 6:59 Yaser telephone call is consistent with this happening. Adnan does not use his cellphone again until 9:01. But Jay is using the phone immediately at 7:00 p.m. Jenn tells police he called and left a message saying he did not need her to meet him at the park after all. The park she described to police is a three-minute walk through Adnan’s backyard. Because obviously, Jay has the unexpected use of Adnan’s car and cellphone once again to go bury Hae’s body in Leakin Park and ditch her car a second time — by himself — so he cancels this arrangement with Jenn. See Susan Simpsons blog post, An Examination of the Prosecutions’ Evidence Against Adnan Syed.

Jay calls Jenn at 7:00 p.m. to tell her that she doesn’t need to meet him at the park. The park she described to police is a 3-minute walk through Adnan’s backyard. Jay is canceling this arrangement because he has the unexpected use of Adnan’s car and cellphone again. So doesn’t need Jenn to take him to the Park-and-Go to get Hae’s car and then on to Leakin Park to bury her body. He can do it himself.

Jenn Park Transcript

Page 14 of Jenn’s police transcript explaining her confusion at Jay’s 7:00 message to meet him at a park, which is a three-minute walk through Adnan’s backyward.


Chivvis Assertion: Finally, Chivvis posits in episode 12 of Serial Podcast (transcript) that the reality may be only sinking in around the time of the murder, i.e., for Adnan that he would not be getting back with Hae. The problem with this is that Adnan had already met Don when Hae’s car broke down on December 23rd. And Don says they were sizing each other up. So having met Don face-to-face, Adnan is well aware that Don is taking over Hae’s affections. In fact, this could be one reason why Adnan does not page Hae. He understands perfectly that it’s Don’s problem now (Hae not showing up at home because she could be with Don).

In a study done between 1994 and 1998 in ten U.S. cities (Baltimore, Houston, Texas, Kansas City (KS), Kansas City (MO), Los Angeles, New York, Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Washington, St. Petersburg/Tampa, and Wichita) the domestic violence murder of a female was preceded by:

  • 67% of femicide victims had been physically abused by their intimate partner.
  • 89% of femicide victims who had been physically abused had also been stalked in the 12 months before the murder.
  • 79% of abused femicide victims reported stalking during the same period that they reported abuse.
  • 85% of attempted femicide cases involved at least one episode of stalking within 12 months prior to the attempted murder.
  • 54% of femicide victims reported stalking to police before they were killed by their stalkers.

Serial: More Details About Jay’s Transcripts Than You Ever Need to Know
(an excerpt from Susan Simpson’s blog post)

“Second, while it is true, like I mentioned earlier, that one witness’s fabricated testimony cannot be used to prove Adnan’s innocence, by the same token that fabricated testimony cannot be used to prove Adnan’s guilt, either. Because once you agree that Jay’s story is unreliable, inconsistent, and manufactured, then the only way to conclude that Adnan is guilty is to discard everything in Jay’s statements that is inconsistent with the theory that Adnan and Jay worked together to kill Hae (which is a lot of things to discard), and to also assume the existence of a whole host of additional facts that were not contained in Jay’s testimony, or anywhere else.

But once your theory of the case is based on accepting only those parts of Jay’s testimony that are consistent with Adnan’s guilt, and by speculating about the existence of additional sets of facts to which Jay has never testified — well, how is that any different from simply writing a piece of fiction? By using that approach to Jay’s testimony, it’s possible to invent a narrative that supports the guilt of just about any individual connected to Woodlawn.”

And for comic relief, don’t miss: Plotting the Coordinates of Jay’s Dream.

For anyone still nursing doubts, be sure to read: Serial Podcast: Cell Data Shows How Jay Acted Alone.




Serial Podcast; Cellphone Data Shows How Jay Acted Alone


Cellphone data shows how Jay acted alone in the murder of Hae Min Lee, with no accomplice other than getting a few rides (explains the plethora of calls to and from Jenn that day). Based on lawyer Susan Simpson’s comprehensive overview, “A Comparison of Adnan’s Cell Phone Records and the Witness Statements.” Hypothetical though my story surrounding the cellphone records may be, the hard data speaks for itself. I can only guess at Jay’s motive and how he gained access to Hae after school on January 13, 1999. But I know he did have a motive and did gain access to her because there is proof of these: Hae is dead. And Jay is at all the right places at all the right times during the critical events of that day. He left breadcrumbs in the form of cellphone calls to his friends along the way.

Here’s something to remember: Only 22% of women are killed by their boyfriends. While 90% are killed by someone they know. Statistically, with Don in the picture, there is a 1 in 10 chance that Adnan killed Hae. And a 9 in 10 chance that Jay killed Hae.

Yet most conclusive to my hypothesis comes from Jenn’s police statement: “So Jay gets there [her house] around 1:30… Jay says he’s waiting for a phone call and he didn’t say who from. […] Jay talked on the [house*] phone to whoever and then um then Jay left. I don’t know what time. I’d say anywhere between 2:30 and 4:15.” Yet we know where Jay is at 2:36. He’s near Woodlawn where the cell tower pings. So 2:30 is the correct time. In fact, Jay’s calling to Jenn’s house at 3:21 and 4:12, so he’s not there. This is the genesis for cop’s concocting the “come-and-get-me” call. But Adnan wouldn’t be calling Jenn’s house; he’d call his cellphone (so this detail gets dropped from the police narrative). But how coincidental is it that Hae Min Lee is dead within an hour of this call to Jenn’s house after which Jay left immediately…and that Jay is positively involved in her murder? No coincidence at all. (More explanation on this 2:30 house call in Notes.)

From page 8 of Jenn's police transcript.

From page 8 of Jenn’s police transcript.

As you analyze this Cell Data timeline, keep in mind that Jay and Jenn tell police again and again that Jay was at her house until 3:40. In Jenn’s statement to police, she says, “Um then Jay left my house probably around 3:30, 4:00, 4:15. Well after 3:45. Between 3:45 and 4:15.” Though the cell data clearly disputes that. This 3:45 fabrication was supposed to be their alibi before the cellphone log made its advent — and indeed, long afterwards…right up until the trial. More verification of Jay’s insistence at Serial Podcast; Episode 5, “Why It Can’t Be the 3:15 Call” webpage. And anyway, just how does one explain the preponderance of to-and-from Jenn calls that day when Jay ought to be otherwise occupied in a murder? Unless Jay needed rides in juggling two cars.

And for a more philosophical-psychological take on how Jay got away with murder, read Serial Podcast: Dana Chivvis Is No Mr. Spock.

THE QUESTION: How would Jay gain access to Hae within a 15-20 minute period after school between her talking with wrestling co-manager, Summer, and failing to pick her little cousin up at 3:15? Nevertheless, someone most certainly did — as unbelievable and “far-fetched” as that seems. And Jay has all the answers, i.e., where her car was ditched and where the body was buried.

THE STORY: “The spine” of this according to Becky and Krista, who testified to it in court. Adnan asks Hae for a ride after school because he doesn’t have his car. Happens to explain to Hae that he’s lent it to Jay. Maybe Adnan wants to get something to eat before Track. Hae initially agrees to give Adnan a ride. But then realizes this is her opportunity to have that confrontation with Jay about his cheating on Stephanie. (See notes below as to one person with whom Jay was likely sleeping and explanation for Jenn’s fierce devotion to Jay.) Because with the use of Adnan’s car, Hae realizes that Jay is able to meet her after school somewhere — private. Hae gets a hold of Jay the way all the Magnet students do who buy weed from him, or through his girlfriend, Stephanie. As Krista further testified in court, Hae goes back later in the school day and tells Adnan that she cannot give him a ride after all, because “something’s come up.” That “something” is a meeting with Jay. After school, Hae calls Jenn’s house telephone number (given to her by Jay? Or Stephanie?) in order to confirm a meeting place. After receiving the call, as Jenn lets slip to police…Jay leaves her house around 2:30. (See notes as to why Jenn might have inadvertently told the truth about this.)


  • Jenn Home 12:07 and 12:41 — Jay is in possession of Adnan’s cellphone. The 12:41 ping is near  Baltimore City. Jay cannot be at Jenn’s house with her brother playing video games as claimed, because there would be no reason to call Jenn’s home if Jay were sitting in it. What is Jay’s purpose in lying about this? Unless he ran into Hae somewhere off campus at which time they made tentative plans to talk. Or else, Jay is just lying to lie.
  • Incoming 12:43 — ping near downtown Baltimore City — Jenn tells police Jay comes to her house between 1:00 and 1:30 after she gets off of work. Perhaps this is Jenn calling to say she is home.

Note: This begins time frame when Asia said then — and says now, without equivocation — that she spoke with Adnan in the Woodlawn Library that day. Adnan, who is desperately in need of an alibi, never insists on this to his defense attorney. Sarah Koenig canvasses other Defense Attorneys, who say that it is “inconceivable” that a defense attorney would not at least talk to an eye-witness who could provide an alibi.

  • Incoming 2:36 — ping near Woodlawn B Southeast. Jay is in the area of the high school coming from direction of Jenn’s house for his private meeting with Hae. Having left Jenn’s house around 2:30 after he received “the call” he was waiting for (from Hae).
  • Incoming 3:15 — ping near Woodlawn C Northwest. Phone/Jay is still in the vicinity of Best Buy/Security Mall. Though by now, Hae has missed picking up her cousin. Forensics undeterminate as to whether she is actually deceased by this time. Jenn may be calling because they made plans, perhaps to shop for Stephanie’s birthday gift…and Jay told her he’d be right back after exiting her house in a rush. But he hasn’t come back yet, so she wants to know where he is.
  • Jenn Home 3:21 — ping near Woodlawn C Northwest/Best Buy. Perhaps Jay is returning Jenn’s incoming call of 6 minutes earlier to cancel their plans made when he was at Jenn’s house. Jay is still near the high school/Hae meeting place.
  • Nisha 3:32 — ping near Woodlawn C Northwest/Best Buy. This number is at the top of Speed Dial. In 1999: Most of the nation’s big wireless calling companies begin billing their customers from the moment they press the “send” button on a mobile phone to the moment they hit “end.” Jay’s insistence that he was at Jenn’s until at least 3:40 infers a big clue as to what time Hae was killed. Creepy to think this butt dial happened in the struggle as Hae was being strangled in the driver’s seat of her car, or else stuffed into the trunk. Susan Simpson has uncovered statistical data that suggests a 5% incidence of butt dials during violent acts: Why the Nisha Call Shows Hae Was Murdered at 3:32 p.m. And Simpson also explains how ridiculously easy it would be to Speed Dial on the model of Nokia phone Adnan carried.

Note: According to track-team member, Will, practice started at 4:00. Inez, who works the concession stand — by the gym — states that Track Practice started around 3:30. Time difference allows for team members to arrive at gym, change into running clothes and warm up.

  • Phil (Jay’s associate) 3:48 — ping Woodlawn A Northeast  toward I70 Park-and-Go. Possibly placed while car in motion. Hae’s car…being driven by Jay. With her body in trunk. (Police never vary from the position of Hae’s body being in the trunk of her own car — which would indicate they found forensic evidence belonging to Hae there.) Highly likely, according to the excellent work of Susan Simpson, that given the topography, the driver/phone is near the I70 Park-and-Go where Hae’s car is first disposed of. One possibility: Jay calls Phil to ask if he can get a ride. But for whatever reason, Phil is not responding or can’t.
  • Patrick 3:59 — ping same Woodlawn A Northeast tower, I70 Park-and-Go side. Jay rings Patrick to come pick him up instead — under guise of wanting to score some weed (or date-rape drug*).
  • Jenn Home 4:12 — ping near Forest Park where Patrick lives (in area above Leakin Park and above-adjacent to I70 Park-and-Go). After Patrick picks Jay up, he drives Jay to his house for drug purchase. Then Patrick gives Jay ride back to his house. Call to Jenn is to arrange meeting him at his house in about 30 minutes, after Patrick drops him off. (Jenn ultimately takes Jay near to location of Adnan’s Car/Hae meeting somewhere around Woodlawn/Best Buy.)
  • Incoming 4:27 — ping near Jay and Jenn’s houses (not Woodlawn/Adnan’s). Jay is getting shovel from home. Call could be from Jenn asking if he’s arrived home yet and confirming she is coming over to his house to take Jay wherever he needs to go in a few minutes. At this point, Jenn needn’t suspect anything (shovel for impending ice storm). A couple hours later, Jenn will agree with Kathy that Jay is acting weird, when she calls over and discovers he and Adnan are there around 6:00.
  • Incoming 4:58 — ping same tower near Jay and Jenn’s houses (not Woodlawn/Adnan’s). Call from Adnan. Within the next half hour, he will be finished with Track and wants to be picked up. (Police come to the same conclusion in their “official” story.) Answers the question: How would Jay have known that Adnan wouldn’t have witnesses? He didn’t! That’s why he tells the truth about Adnan going to Track and picking him up afterwards. (Even though it’s impossible for Adnan to have driven Hae’s car to Park-and-Go and also have gone to Track.) As for how Jay gets back to Adnan’s car/Hae meeting place…Jenn usually picks her mother up from work at 5:00 on Baltimore Street, which she indicates is around a 15-minute drive. Feasible that Jenn was a little late picking her mother up that day. And just dropped Jay off at a traffic light on a corner nearby to it.
  • Voicemail 5:14 — Susan Simpson has shown that contrary to Prosecutor Urick’s assertion in court, this is simply another incoming call. And Adnan is probably still at Track Practice. Note: from this call until 6:59, Jay does not once use Adnan’s phone, clearly showing a pattern in which Jay and Adnan do not use the cellphone interchangeably. When one is using it, the other is not.
  • Krista 5:38 — ping exactly where a McDonald’s is now located. Jay states that he picked Adnan up around 5:15, and they go to McDonald’s on way to Kathy’s house.

Note: Somehow, between going to McDonald’s and arriving at Kathy’s house, Adnan is described as “slumped on the floor” and fairly incoherent except for asking, “Does anyone know how to get rid of a high?” How does Adnan get that totally wasted in roughly 20 short minutes? It’s not as if this 6’2″, 180-lb. athlete has never smoked a blunt before. What was put in his soda pop at McDonald’s? It is no wonder Adnan is able to remember nary a detail from this “not-normal” day. Remember, Jay was at his connection Patrick’s house a little over an hour earlier.

  • Incoming Kathy’s House — 6:07 Hae’s brother; 6:09 Aisha; 6:24 Officer Adcock asking Adnan if he’s seen Hae.

Note: Adnan’s father testified in a court that Adnan was with him at the Mosque from 7:30 to 10:30. But Adnan would first have stopped home to pick up meal his mother has prepared and packed to bring his father for end of ritual Ramadan fast, and then walk it over to Mosque by 7:30.

  • Yaser Cell 6:59 (Adnan’s friend) — ping near Adnan’s house/Woodlawn & Mosque (not Jay’s house). Jay is dropping Adnan off at home. Note: No calls are made by Adnan on his cellphone from this time until 9:01.
  • Jenn Pager 7:00 — ping near Adnan’s House/Woodlawn & Mosque. Jay is pulling away from Adnan’s house. He’s back in control of Adnan’s car and using his cellphone once again. Per Jenn’s police interview, Jay called to say he did not need to be picked up at the park. The park Jenn describes is a 3-minute walk through Adnan’s backyard. Because Adnan has lent him his car, Jay calls Jenn to cancel this arrangement.
  • Incoming 7:09 — crucial ping off tower near SW leg of Leakin Park. Jay has driven Adnan’s car to I70 Park-and-Go, which is close to and on way to Leakin Park. At I70 Park-and-Go, Jay gets into Hae’s car with body still in trunk, taking shovel with him from Adnan’s car. Does not attempt to transfer body to Adnan’s car here as risky; no forensic evidence found in Adnan’s trunk. Incoming call is from Jenn because she was confused by Jay’s 7:00 message, per what she tells police.
  • Incoming 7:16 — crucial ping off tower near SW leg of Leakin Park. Jay is still burying body, alone. Jenn calling again because perhaps Jay did not picked up her last call of 7 minutes ago, for obvious reasons. Jay tells Jenn where to meet him…adding per Jenn’s police statement, “I’ll call you when I need you.”
  • Jenn Pager 8:04 — ping near second location where Hae’s car is relocated on a side street off Edmondson Avenue. Jay is calling Jenn because he needs her to pick him up at a mall nearby (Westview?).
  • Jenn Pager 8:05 — ping different side of same tower moving westward of last ping at Edmondson Avenue, likely along route 40. Jay on foot moving away from relocation of Hae’s car and toward Jenn’s house. Jenn picks Jay up at a mall behind which he disposes of shovel in dumpster. (Super Fresh…also mentioned by Jenn to police in interview?)  She drives Jay back to I70 Park-and-Go to retrieve Adnan’s car. With Jenn following behind, Jay returns car and cellphone to Adnan at Mosque before 9:00. Then Jenn and Jay go on their merry way to wipe some fingerprints off a shovel. And destroy evidence in a capital one murder case (that night or the next day).

Note: Sarah Koenig wonders in eps. 12 what the discrepancy…between Jay saying Adnan dropped him at home and Jenn saying she picked Jay up at Westview Mall…could be intended to cover up. As if both were lying. (Actually, Sarah Koenig also lumps Adnan in here with the lies of Jay and Jenn, even though Adnan has no idea how the murder went down, and so, therefore, cannot be lying about anything.) But in this instance, it is only Jay who is lying. The purpose for which is to place himself a safe distance from the time/place of Hae’s car being ditched for the second time of Edmondson Ave.

  • Nisha 9:01 — ping near Adnan’s house. Adnan is back in possession of his cellphone and car.

Then Jay and Jenn go on their merry way to destroy the evidence of Jay’s fingerprints, clothes abd boots, (either that day or the next). Later that night, Jay and Jenn go over to Kathy’s apartment as previously planned, which Kathy testifies to in court. By then, Jenn may (?) know something, because in Kathy’s words, they both are trying to “smooth over” earlier episode with “weird” Jay and  semi-catatonic Adnan.


  • How did Adnan get so wasted in approximately 20 minutes? Bear with me. And please keep in mind that Jay was raised in an extended family intimately familiar with criminal activity and the court system…so has an inculcated criminal mindset. Jay was at his connection Patrick’s house earlier, and who knows what kind of date-rape drug he actually bought to slip Adnan at McDonald’s? Obliterating Adnan’s memory as future insurance should his 3:40 Jenn alibi fall through. Because Jay’s insurance plan succeeds brilliantly. Not initially to frame Adnan. Just so that Adnan would prove an unreliable witness should Jay get caught and go to trial for Hae’s murder.
  • Did you know? Currently, businessmen around the world are being slipped date-rape drugs and then taken to the ATM where they drain their accounts, of their own accord, and willingly hand the money over. This and other things. So to think this date-rape drug hypothesis is looney flies in the face of what actually goes on in the world.
  • Notice the cellphone patterns: When Adnan is with his cellphone after track, from 5:38 until 6:59, Jay does not use Adnan’s cellphone himself once, at all. When Jay is in sole possession of Adnan’s cellphone and car, the string of calls are all to his friends and associates: First string between 12:07 and 5:14; and second string between 7:00 and 9:01. The one exception is the nisha call (demoted to small caps) at 3:32. That makes it anomalous and highly suspect as it does not fit the pattern. And it’s on Speed Dial. So it is inconclusive. Adnan did not have to be with Jay when this call was made. The only definitive series of calls Adnan makes is between 5:38 and 6:59, when his movements are accounted for and don’t involve murderous assignations.

What’s the Deal with Jenn?

In speaking to police, Jenn says, “Jay told me like ‘last night’ that it was Adnan’s car that he was in.” She is referring to the night before her police interview, six weeks after Hae’s death. When Jay is obviously prepping her for her police interview. His Number One directive being, “Whatever you say, make sure I was with you until 3:40.” But Jay also instructs Jenn on other details, such as putting Adnan in Leakin Park. Which is why Jenn first says he answered the phone. She later changes this to “some man.” Because in actuality, Jenn barely knows Adnan other than seeing him around school. What “the man” says sounds strikingly similar to what she at one point tells police Jay told her, “I’ll call you when I need you.” Jenn, in the end, does not want to lie too much. That is why she tells the truth about picking Jay up at a mall around 8:00 p.m. (and not at his house as he contends).

With police, Jenn’s statements are vague, contradictory and scatter-shot. Because she is not exactly sure what happened with Hae or what she might say to incriminate Jay. She may be only just finding out about Jay’s involvement the night before her police visit, with lawyer in tow. No doubt though, Jay tells her that Adnan committed the murder, and Jenn still believes that to this day. Because as she tells police, Jay wouldn’t lie to her.

When police ask about her relationship with Jay, “boyfriend, girlfriend type?,” Jenn replies “No, not like, you know, not really, but I mean, we’re close. Like, I love Jay as a friend. I mean with all my heart. Jay is like, I trust Jay with my life.” Most of us can guess the implications of Jenn’s saying “not really” to a straightforward question like that. She also says, “I don’t like [Jay’s] girlfriend very much. We don’t get along very well all the time.” Elsewhere in the statement, talking about the night on which the local TV News report Hae missing, while she and Jay are with some friends at Champs, Jenn says she was shocked. Police ask her, “”Why would you be so shocked that now the news is reporting she’s missing? She hasn’t been seen or heard from.” Exactly.

I will hand it to Jenn, though, on one point. She tells police, truthfully, that she picks Jay up at a mall around 8:00 p.m. Even though Jay says Adnan dropped him off at home around that time. Jay says this so as to distance himself from the Edmondson Ave. relocation where he drops Hae’s car. And the cellphone does ping the Edmondson Ave. tower at 8:04. That is how it can be determined that Jenn is telling the truth. And uncovers the purpose for which Jay is lying about Adnan dropping him at home.

Now to the particulars:

  • *Jenn tells police that the call just before 2;30 came either on her house phone or Adnan’s cellphone. But there are no cellphone calls at all between 12:47 and 2:36. It can’t be the 2:36 call because that pings Woodlawn cell tower, and not cell tower nearest Jenn and Jay’s houses. So I am saying “house” phone, dispensing with Jenn’s prevarications.
  • Police immediately ask Jenn if she knows who called Jay at her house right before 2:30. She says unwaveringly that she doesn’t know. But later on in the “continued” Jenn interview, police are assuming it is Adnan who called Jenn’s house. And Jenn even says to them, “You told me he called my house….” Though this does not pan out because even detectives Frick & Frack realize the implausibility of Adnan calling Jenn’s house when Jay has his cellphone, it gives them the idea for the “come-and-get-me” call.
  • I have Patrick picking Jay up at the Park-and-Go because I’m assuming Jay does not want to be driving a dead girl’s car, with her body in the trunk, any longer than he has to be. But even in the one or two other alternative scenarios…the outcome is the same: Jay somehow gets a ride back to his house by 4:27.
  • Does Jay have a pager? Jenn tell police, “no.” Instead, it seems Jay gets phone calls at his house or even at Jenn’s house. How do people know he’s even at Jenn’s? If he doesn’t have a pager? But of course, he has the use of Adnan’s cellphone, but only for that day. I don’t know how Jay can possibly be a drug dealer and not have a pager. Nevertheless, Hae got a hold of him some way. He gives her Jenn’s home number, which she calls between 2:15 and 2:30, after school, to arrange a meeting place. I would like to know if Hae left school around lunch the day of January 13th for any reason, at which time she could have run into Jay — and would account for him lying about being at Jenn’s house with her brother playing video games between 12:07 and 12:43.
  • Jay does not have a car of his own, so his friends, like Jenn, must be accustomed to giving him rides all the time. So this idea that Jay calls to get rides three times that day is no barrier to my hypothesis. He is a small-time drug dealer always with a scam in the works, so probably nothing unusual that he should need lifts everywhere.


Poor young innocent Hae. Her confronting Jay about his cheating on Stephanie was just supposed to be your typical high-school drama. She couldn’t gauge the extent to which she was dealing with a violent character* whose only solace in life was girlfriend Stephanie, for whom he’d move heaven and earth to protect (his relationship with). Furthermore, Jay’s a “scary” Alpha Male whose idea of fun was trying to stab-wound his good friend, Chris. Incidentally, Jay’s also a habitual liar, according to his own friends. (More on Jay’s post-case displays of violence below.)

But older, experienced porn-video-store co-worker, Josh, seems to think the 18-year-old Jay wasn’t all that tough. Maybe at the time, Jay was not a hardened criminal — and will never kill again. But Jay has it in him to snap this one time. And I would posit, once you kill someone, you are de facto a hardened criminal. And there is a special Hell reserved for someone who ostensibly takes two lives: Hae’s and Adnan’s. Not some imaginary Hell where “bad” people go to after death…but a living Hell where Jay is prone to the constant rage he says he’s feeling in the brief 20-minute conversation he has with Sarah Koenig and Julie Snyder — when confronted with and reminded of this. Indeed, Jay has the special distinction of being spoofed on Saturday Night Live as the Dennis Rodman-esque elf, Jingle, in a Serial Podcast send-up (December 20, 2014).

And this I will tell you having been on the Board of the local Shelter for Domestic Abuse: There’s always a history leading up to such an event. There would have been warning signs if Adnan were going to off his ex-girlfriend. Yet Adnan had displayed nothing of the sort in the way of violence or threats. In fact, he’s moved on with two other girls. And Hae had never confided in a friend that she was afraid of Adnan (which would be typical). Nor had she written in her diary anything that would indicate she felt threatened by him. In fact, she’s calling Adnan to help when her car breaks down after their relationship ended.

Sadly, the extreme irony is…if Hae had given Adnan a ride that day, she would still be alive.

In a study done between 1994 and 1998 in ten U.S. cities (Baltimore, Houston, Texas, Kansas City (KS), Kansas City (MO), Los Angeles, New York, Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Washington, St. Petersburg/Tampa, and Wichita:

  • 76% of femicide victims had been stalked by the person who killed them.
  • 67% had been physically abused by their intimate partner.
  • 89% of femicide victims who had been physically abused had also been stalked in the 12 months before the murder.
  • 79% of abused femicide victims reported stalking during the same period that they reported abuse.
  • 85% of attempted femicide cases involved at least one episode of stalking within 12 months prior to the attempted femicide.
  • 54% of femicide victims reported stalking to police before they were killed by their stalkers.

Stalking Resource Ctr., The Nat’l Ctr. for Victims of Crime, Stalking Fact Sheet, (citing Judith McFarlane et al., 3 Homicide Studies 300-316 (1999)


The following was submitted to reddit by whitenoise2323 on November 24, 2014, under the heading: “Theory: 3rd Party Criminial Connections to Jay.” I do not share the third-party theory, but whitenoise2323 has some interesting insights. This is what he found in public records about Jay:

I think the 3rd party was an associate or relative of Jay’s most likely his dad or uncle who were really wrapped up in drug dealing, and not just weed. Jay’s family members have a lengthy criminal history. His dad, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., have tons of charges for drug dealing, assault, and more notably: Battery and Rape Charges. You can find all of this in public records. I can’t provide a link [on reddit] because I might get banned (it happened twice already for just talking about this stuff). Also, Jay’s rap sheet post 1999 says a lot about him and his criminal involvement.

Why does Jay serve zero days in prison? He is an informant on these bigger sources. When you look into his record you see that Jay plead guilty to accessory after the fact of 1st degree murder and he was sentenced to a five year suspended sentence and 2 years probation. This would mean that if he violates probation or the conditions of his plea deal he would go to prison for five years. Jay was charged with a slew of various crimes while he would have been on probation. Most of these charges were dropped but he was even found guilty of a few and didn’t go to prison, just gets sentenced with more probation without a conviction. Much later, after his probation term would have ended, he was charged with 5 counts of assault, 2 of those counts are assault on a police officer. Plus two charges of resisting arrest. The court file names two cops who say he assaulted them and three more who witnessed this event. All those charges get dropped, too. The fact that he moved to California after living for 33+ years in Baltimore, right around when the TAL crew started sniffing around, leaves me with some questions, too.

Compare Jay’s post-case criminal history to Adnan’s. His only disciplinary action in prison has been for having a cellphone. Poetic.